Curse

unknown1 · Jun 09, 2006, 04:08 AM // 04:08

1k - i remeber when i had to pay 5k+ for cap sig!

Maria The Princess · Jun 09, 2006, 04:17 AM // 04:17

after you do 1 mission you have more then 1k only from it! try putting all your mony in storage and see how much you gt after 1 8 ppl mission. i bet ts enouth for a skill

Yichi · Jun 09, 2006, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Would unlocking everything in the game quickly and painlessly make this "game" fun for you?

There are the types of players that do strive for having as much as possible if not everything fully unlocked, so it is fun for them. where as others just unlock what they need. I know that i have several chars that have skills they have never used, but they are there.

lyra_song · Jun 09, 2006, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

At the end of the day it is really a good question you've got to ask yourself.

Would unlocking everything in the game quickly and painlessly make this "game" fun for you? Or does having to come home at 5 after a whole day of work, having to sit down in front of GW, and "work" somemore makes it more fun for you?

If it is the latter you are twisted, but hey, some people like BSDM too, it takes all kinds to enjoy the game

I dont know if comparing BSDM and RPG grinding is a valid arguement.

Although i love the grind, i dont consider it self punishment, its a goal, its something to do, and i feel like i earned it and im justified to have it for all the things i did for it.

If grinding actually causes YOU physical pain which in turn causes pleasure, THEN that would be BDSM.

MSecorsky · Jun 09, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

that is not access,[having all the skills available in Kaineng (MSec)] that is more something likr dangling a carrot in the hopes people will do extra stuff to get the carrot (in here the extra stuff is simply farming areas for money). Not like a basic necessity, more an action you would take for a luxury good.

Nonsense. All the non-elite skills are there. One skill point, up to 1K gold, you can have any ones you want for the build you want. Prior to getting here, you already gathered a decent handful and been able to try a few builds, now it's go time. You don't need to buy immediately every skill to allow you to take a specific build for a test drive. It's these test drives that should, if you actually go for it, provide the resources needed for additional skills even if you don't do the quests that provide ample experience and gold to boot.

It needs to be reiterated yet again... skills used to cost MORE than 1K! Things are better these days. Much so.

Beat_Go_Stick · Jun 09, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHUIU

Since when are casual players concered with buying a lot of skills anyway?

Just because we play less than you, doesn't mean we don't like options. I play 4-8 hours a week and luckily I became wealthy on the Factions release weekend (pack rats owned that weekend!

) so I was able to buy armor, skills, and signets for my characters. It was still very expensive though. My only concern is shifting the focus of the game from "Immerse yourself in this quest and I'll teach you for a reward" to "Grind this quest and buy what you want". If you are already rich, as I was, there is absolutely ZERO motivation to do any of the quests in this game. I mean, seriously, can anyone here say they would do those peripheral Market quests if they had no need for xp, gold, or skill points? Not a chance. I think that's a shame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyre Brand

I really hate the "casual player" argument. It's really a bunch of rhetoric. People play the game as often or as little as they want to. There isn't a clean cut definition of what is casual or not. And there is an inference that "casual gamer" means the game should be watered down.

Heh, how is asking the focus of a game to be on content and the meta-game instead of on capturing X for your character "watering the game down"? Purchasing skills is a system made for grinders. You grind, you make money, you buy skills which you then use to grind more efficiently, make more gold, and buy more skills. I don't think 1k is necessarily too much gold, but I don't want to spend my time playing this game focussing on gold. I'd rather be captivated by a fun story or do quests that significantly alter the future of my game. The only rewards in GW:F are ground like espresso.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Jun 10, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Nonsense. All the non-elite skills are there. One skill point, up to 1K gold, you can have any ones you want for the build you want. Prior to getting here, you already gathered a decent handful and been able to try a few builds, now it's go time. You don't need to buy immediately every skill to allow you to take a specific build for a test drive. It's these test drives that should, if you actually go for it, provide the resources needed for additional skills even if you don't do the quests that provide ample experience and gold to boot.

It needs to be reiterated yet again... skills used to cost MORE than 1K! Things are better these days. Much so.

how is this nonsense? they are all there like you so eloquently put it... you just have to go out and farm 1k money and a skillpoint for something as basic as making builds. Something which is inherent to a dynamic focussed pvp end game, as i have been pointed out so many times. In any case, like I stated, i'm not asking for a simple dumping of the skills on your account. I am however debating that even though finishing the games quests you are still unable to buy all skills due to their insane price. And this only gets worse for people having made a char in prophecies since they nearly immediately start out with a basic cost of 1k for any other skills. Once more farming for amber or faction or armor or... i can understand but not for something as basic as simple character development.

PS: and stating that we have it better now then in the past and that we shouldn't complain anymore about the price is like saying to a person who gotten beaten every day to a pulp by their agressive spouse, hey don't complain since your new spouse only slaps you silly once a week now... In both cases there is room for improvement in some peoples eyes while others will state that they should be happy with what they got, and I/we consider 1k cost for each skill to expensive and hope for improvement, which is the reason why people actually correspond with the devs or the rest of the fanbase.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Jun 10, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Post your support for an alternative way of learning Skills and acquiring Signets of Capture in this thread instead:
Alternative way to learn Skills, Signets of Capture, earn Faction, Amber, Jadite

Quote:

1. Skils & Signets of Capture
Using five (5) of either:
- Monastery Credits
- Imperial Commendations
- Luxon Totems
- Equipement Requisitions

We can either learn a new skill, or get a Signet of Capture while in:
- Shing Jea Monastry
- Kaineng Center
- Cavalon
- House Zu Heltzer

Freeze_XJ · Jun 10, 2006, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Some time ago, (the rare old times of Prophecies only) i played with my monk, just some hours a week, enjoyed walking and killing myself everywhere, and occasionally bought a skill... When i looked at my Xunlai after some months, i found some 100K + some simple nice stuff... (and still walked with parts of Desert armor that supported me through every mission since). All i bought was caps for my elites (3 at that time) and some armor...

I suppose this is Anets idea of the game, remembering their quote "as skill, not hours played, decide your fate." If you need perfect stuff and all skills to play well, well, change your style and think of what you want with a char, instead of creating one and then changing style every week...

Concerning the "casual gamer" that i see too often, please think about heavy gamers as well... if you can play the game in a week, and then you have it all, it is over before you like it

Now you have something to look forward to, and you can still dream about that perfect weapon and FoW armor, thinking it makes you invincible

So please, dream on, and keep playing

Cador · Jun 10, 2006, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by morimoto

1K is way to much money.

i am a casual gamer and $$ is hard to come buy. i find that i dont have enuff $$ to buy all the things i need to have a decent playing experience.

lately i have been hitting up my brother for $$ and loot, i feel like such a dead beat!

You say casual gamer, do one or two runs of vermin with a wammo or farm for an hour instead of doing missoins or w/e and youll be set.

Neriandal Freit · Jun 10, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cador

You say casual gamer, do one or two runs of vermin with a wammo or farm for an hour instead of doing missoins or w/e and youll be set.

AH, but why would they do that Cador? It's better to post your complaints and whines on a forum for hours at a time then it is to play a game

Avarre · Jun 10, 2006, 03:14 PM // 15:14

I love how casual gamers always say they don't have enough time to get a few plat (which takes like what, a few minutes?), yet seem to have lots of time to complain how they can't get as much as powerplayers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Would unlocking everything in the game quickly and painlessly make this "game" fun for you?

Yes, it would. And fortunately, it already is.

Crotalus · Jun 10, 2006, 03:25 PM // 15:25

This game is not a casual friendly game. If you are not a hardcore gamer then don't even try to play this as you will be frustrated. Farming adds little to character development but is a requirement to progress further. It has been stated more than several times by players including a Beta tester.

Remember every minute in game you should be having fun not preparing to have fun.

gg, Jeff Strain.

Loviatar · Jun 10, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crotalus

This game is not a casual friendly game. If you are not a hardcore gamer then don't even try to play this as you will be frustrated. Farming adds little to character development but is a requirement to progress further. It has been stated more than several times by players including a Beta tester.

Remember every minute in game you should be having fun not preparing to have fun.

gg, Jeff Strain.

UASkills is a dead horse

UAMods is a dead horse

UAItems is a dead horse

other people like it and if you don find an instant gratification game to play and be happy with it

Crotalus · Jun 10, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

UASkills is a dead horse

UAMods is a dead horse

UAItems is a dead horse

other people like it and if you don find an instant gratification game to play and be happy with it

Sorry Loviatar this has nothing to do with UAX. You were just waiting to post it, eh?

I am willing to work for UAS. I guess i am used to games where once the final boss is killed and do all the quests you have a completed character to either take to the next expansion or mess around in the game.

Guild Wars is not like that at all. Once you complete the game you have a lot more work to get a completed character. I had little problem in Prophecies with the scrolls but in Factions it is a problem.

You are quite right, other people like it the way it is. That is why i said it is not a casual friendly game. These are the hardcore players talking.

Loviatar · Jun 10, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crotalus

Guild Wars is not like that at all. Once you complete the game you have a lot more work to get a completed character. I had little problem in Prophecies with the scrolls but in Factions it is a problem.

You are quite right, other people like it the way it is. That is why i said it is not a casual friendly game. These are the hardcore players talking.[/QUOTE]

to be honest i am not as happy as chapter 1 but still enjoying it at a truly casual pace .

i expect some changes as we go along but am using the much faster leveling and the grab extra 30 attribute points to set up characters for chapter 3.
maybe i will love it maybe not but with over 1000 hours of fun for chapter 1 i am willing to stub a few toes along the way to see how this turns out

in any case i figure (my personal opinion) GW fun has paid in advance for at least several chapters.

that quote was used so often in the UAX battle my response was reflex

my apologies

Demon Rebel · Jun 10, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

This is incredible!

I started reading this thread thinking about the 1k cap and how it does get a little excessive...

Then I thought about what I have purchased in the last 11 months:
3 full sets of 15k armor
at least 20-25 sets of 1.5k armor
100's of weapons
100's of runes (when sup Absorptions were 60-100k)
Materials

Ummm yeah... 1k per skill is cheap.

And skill points???? Do you remember when it cost a skill point to Change your attribute setup? The great thing about that is I have Never run into an issue with not having enough skill points on any character when buying skills or cap signets.

I have a few characters with 500k Exp ... I have my 55 monk, working on both my 55 mesmer and my 55 necro, I have more tanks than I need but 2 that I can run almost anywhere in the game, and with the pending addition of 1 elite I can farm to get shards.

I am not a casual player nor am I a hardcore gamer... but I have no issue with the 1k cap. In factions they THROW money at you and I haven't gotten very far at all and I generate more stable money on my 2 factions characters than I do on my Prophecies characters.

Casual gamers should start playing the game and stop whining about the skills, it could be much worse.

And if you think you can justify that your not whining by pulling in the whole "I've got an abusive spouse" then you seriously need councilling! Thats a serious issue but that has NOTHING to do with Guild Wars if you try to take something to logical extremes for a game do not bring something as serious as that into here... its absurd.

And so you know Renegade ++RIP++ - I think you have completely missed the boat on Guild Wars. If you have trouble getting 1k for a skill what do you do when you play? Do you not pick up the drops? Do you not pickup the Gold that drops? In Factions and Prophecies I run around with a full compliment of Henchies and I get Way more gold then you do it seems... and I no longer pick up white drops (unless max).

I am going to stop now... I don't want to flame you...

Is a casual gamer someone that rips off runners and sits next to the high-end armor crafters begging for money? I sure hope not ... because there are already enough of those players.. to many in fact.

Demon

PS - 1k is easy and good for me

twicky_kid · Jun 10, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

1k cap is fine. The rate it increases is not.

With the old system I bought skills for 3 proffessions on 1 character and was still at 600g per skill.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Jun 10, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demon Rebel

This is incredible!

I started reading this thread thinking about the 1k cap and how it does get a little excessive...

Then I thought about what I have purchased in the last 11 months:
3 full sets of 15k armor
at least 20-25 sets of 1.5k armor
100's of weapons
100's of runes (when sup Absorptions were 60-100k)
Materials

Ummm yeah... 1k per skill is cheap.

And skill points???? Do you remember when it cost a skill point to Change your attribute setup? The great thing about that is I have Never run into an issue with not having enough skill points on any character when buying skills or cap signets.

I have a few characters with 500k Exp ... I have my 55 monk, working on both my 55 mesmer and my 55 necro, I have more tanks than I need but 2 that I can run almost anywhere in the game, and with the pending addition of 1 elite I can farm to get shards.

I am not a casual player nor am I a hardcore gamer... but I have no issue with the 1k cap. In factions they THROW money at you and I haven't gotten very far at all and I generate more stable money on my 2 factions characters than I do on my Prophecies characters.

Casual gamers should start playing the game and stop whining about the skills, it could be much worse.

And if you think you can justify that your not whining by pulling in the whole "I've got an abusive spouse" then you seriously need councilling! Thats a serious issue but that has NOTHING to do with Guild Wars if you try to take something to logical extremes for a game do not bring something as serious as that into here... its absurd.

And so you know Renegade ++RIP++ - I think you have completely missed the boat on Guild Wars. If you have trouble getting 1k for a skill what do you do when you play? Do you not pick up the drops? Do you not pickup the Gold that drops? In Factions and Prophecies I run around with a full compliment of Henchies and I get Way more gold then you do it seems... and I no longer pick up white drops (unless max).

I am going to stop now... I don't want to flame you...

Is a casual gamer someone that rips off runners and sits next to the high-end armor crafters begging for money? I sure hope not ... because there are already enough of those players.. to many in fact.

Demon

PS - 1k is easy and good for me

The point of the example was to make an anology. Just as any other example would have sufficed, was just the first that came up. But in whole honesty, the subject of this analogy didn't matter, but the point behind it did. But meh , since it didn't fit in your opinion, lets just brush the point aside. Could just as much state that we made 1$ an hour 50 hours ago, and now we make 5$ an hour. But hey, 50 years ago i could afford 20 gallons of benzine with it while now I'd be overjoyed if i can get 4gallon. But why complain you still get more then at that time...

Or maybe for a GW example as you were pining for so much... the point that i was able to fully equip a char in prophecies with near all skills for the basic choice without ANY farming in 1 week by just playing the game, while in factions you NEED to do farming to get all skills for your primary and secondary. But hey don't complain since its easier to get them on demand in stead of having to wait for the correct skillquest, so tough luck.

Now to go on with some of your other points, concerning the attribute fix. It got altered didn't it? And your happy with this alteration, aren't you? Still if we had taken the same stance as you are taking now... then this change would maybe have never happened and you would still be in need of 20k xp to be able to change your build on the fly.

Secondly, by pointing out the creation of a 55monk, a 55 mesmer and a 55 necro, you categorize yourself immediately as a farmer (ergo in conflict with the skill over time principe) which imho was NOT in line with the targetaudience of this game. So if you then state that all this is not needed, I, as a company would simply completely disregard that since your opinion would dilute the opinion of the actual target and make any marketresearch concerning my targetaudience useless.

I however will agree that skillpoints aren't as much of a problem anymore with the introduction of the repeatable quests and the decent experience rewards of the quests, I just forgot to mention that priori.

And lastly, it doesn't matter if I can't get 1k, since I would dillute the outcome as well seeing that I own more then a couple mill in game..., point is however that knowing the statistic of the majority not having mroe then 10k in their storage, I wonder how these casual gamers will ever have a shot of competing in the high end, or actually have the opportunity to experiment with their skills... since in my mind that is the whole idea behind the game. Experimenting with the skills, not the acquisition of them. But factions completely altered this into a pay or be out of luck even though they offered the option of easy acquisition of skillpoints. Which again would make some people grasp for the moneybuying alternatives, something which last I checked anet was completely agaisnt. (or maybe becaue they don't get a cut from these sells... but this would be hypothesisising and prolly BS-ing).

But i'll stop as well, i don't want to flame you either. Just hoping that you do understand my point, and not just state: hey i farm for it, why don't you spend x amount of times redoing stuff which might be boring to most of the targetaudience of this game just to be able to afford that next skill. In stead of actually letting people test out builds and keep farming just there for stuff, at least it would create more individualised builds in stead of the same old same old cookie cutter builds, that you see surfacing now...

And lastly, because of the need to farm you are possibly turning these casual players in the kind of people you disliked or even tempt them into buying gold online... just so they can afford to complete their build for x or y.

PS: once more i just wished cost where only 500, which could be earned with 1 or max 2 quests and a capsig would be 250 - 350, and could be earned with 1 quest as well. This would actually make some of these casual gamers go out and hunt for skills in stead of buying them. While making the people that are hardcore just buy them as fast as they can...

unienaule · Jun 10, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Keep the discussion on topic.

I think the point that some people are missing is that you are SUPPOSED to have to do *some* work to get skills. If you want the easy way out, there's always PvP and get faction. Then you never have to buy that skill again. If you don't want it that way, then you're going to have to pay for it. PvE and PvP characters are different for a reason. Different people want to play different ways, and if you don't like certain features, you just have to pick which one you can tolerate the most. Most people (it seems from reading this thread) feel that 1k per skill isn't ridiculous, so it doesn't seem likely that Anet is going to change it. It does seem that it reaches 1k very fast, but I would say that TwickyKid's statement that he bought out 3 professions and only hit 600g under the old system is completely untrue.